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Post by shanclan on Jul 11, 2009 11:17:56 GMT -1
It was great to see Griff coming out in favour of river access for all. His comments on the One Show and in the Times (11 July) are a real help to the campaigns by canoeists, kayakers and wild swimmers to restore this natural right.
As a kayaker, it always makes me smile (not in a good way) when I pass signs on Welsh rivers saying "no canoes" or listing long conditions of use. The best of these signs are to be found on the great estates where the signs have probably been funded through charitable foundations with tax exemptions, or in many cases may have been directly funded with tax payers money.
Where did these estates come from? They were built on the spoils of the industrialization of the Welsh valleys. Rivers like the Taff were killed for a hundred years and the ancient oak forests were torn down for pit props. The people who worked in dreadful poverty fared slightly worse. The owners moved East and West to create their estates with fishing and hunting lodges. In the last century they moved into intensive farming which nearly finished the job of killing the rivers.
Now landowners want to be seen as champions of the environment. Most of what they do is subsidised (agri-environment, tourism, charitable funding etc) or is commercially justified (bank and in-river works to support fishing.) They know best, and best is to keep us out like it always has been.
There is a real issue of social justice here. I hope Griff continues to champion this cause through to a successful outcome.
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Post by Polina on Jul 11, 2009 11:58:18 GMT -1
Thank you for this, and for bringing to our attention the articles from the Times. I'll keep everyone on here updated about the campaign as well.
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Post by Fanny Bones on Jul 11, 2009 15:53:52 GMT -1
There is a real issue of social justice here. Quite. And - sadly - not the only one. It's all about access: rivers, land, information - and eventually access to power. Don't let them get away with that!  |
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Post by warthog on Jul 13, 2009 11:02:39 GMT -1
Thank you for bringing to the attention of more of the public thatb the water ways of England are vastly under used. As a member of the Camping and Caravanning Club we have our national holiday on the River Wye. This year we had 135 adults and 80 children attending for 9 days of canoeing. Two months ago my son, 15, and myself paddled from Avimore to Spey Bay and it was wonderful to be able to pull up and camp where ever you wished to, where in England you have to plan almost to the paddle stroke to reach a certified campsite, taking away the fun of the journey. We did this through a website called Song of the Paddle www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/index.php My local river is called the Idle and I know about everybody who paddles it by name, this is a little sad as it is one of the classic rivers in England. There are many who support the rights in England as they have already in Scotland, but I fear it will be a uphill struggle to convince others who profit from this natural resource to let others enjoy a free activity. Regards Stuart |
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Post by mrangry on Jul 23, 2009 15:35:59 GMT -1
Dear Griff; you Sir, are an ill informed bigot.
It is shocking that you have decide to engineer a conflict between two groups of people who share the same love of the countryside and its water ways.
If it wasn't for 2 million active anglers in the UK half the rivers in Britain would be festering sewers. Why don't you get off your middle class arse and actually come and meet some of the normal working people of this country who actually try and work for a healthy environment for everyone. I'm sure any angling club in Britain who have rivers in their care would be more than happy to share with you what they do.
NB
Given that our fellow country men are currently dying in real conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan i think you need to get a sense of priority man.
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Post by goldfish on Jul 23, 2009 16:14:18 GMT -1
You are so right Griff, I can't believe how selfish I've been. I apologize to all conoesists, kayakers and wild swimmers for my selfish, selfish actions.
I will now, quit this dreadful sport that causes pain and suffering to millions of other river users. To help your campaign for river access to all, I will stop giving money to the Enviroment Agency and the Angling Trust who more than likely, never used it for the up keep of rivers anyway.
Now that I'm on your side, how would you like me to 'disturb' the anglers? can we drive into them? release otters? release seals? fireworks?, I have so many ideas Griffy, please let me know how to defeat these evil, evil people.
All the best, Golfish xXx
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Post by abcdefg on Jul 23, 2009 16:21:34 GMT -1
Well i have to agree with the majority on here. Griff was totally out of order and needs to get his facts straight and take a balanced view BEFORE making such statements. Go and have a look at the angling trust website for a balanced view which explains just how much anglers contribute to river conservations (a shed load) and just how much canoeists pay (sod all). Then add to the debate that to be honest the 2 sports are almost incompatable (especially novice canoeists) and i think its easy to understand the sheer weight of emotion here. Anglers pay a lot to enjoy their sport and many take time out for free to clear banks of litter etc, and canoeists pay sod all, and ruin what anglers are paying for !!!!!!. Dont get me wrong, not all canoeists are bad, far from it, but many are inconsiderate, and all should as a bare minimum contribute to the Environment Agency just like anglers do. www.anglingtrust.net/news.asp?section=29&itemid=346&itemTitle=Griff+paddling+up+the+wrong+creek |
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Post by Polina on Jul 23, 2009 16:56:50 GMT -1
Angler and Pooter, your posts have been deleted not for content but for abusive language. If you wish to post again expressing the same opinions in a civilised manner you will be more than welcome but any more abuse will result in a ban.
Thank you.
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Alison
Weekend Hippy
Posts: 127
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Post by Alison on Jul 23, 2009 16:57:22 GMT -1
Goodness, what a lot of hot air.
I'm sure there are two sides to this argument, and it's nice to see that abcdefg and (to a degree) mrangry* at least are capable of expressing their views and putting their case without resorting to abuse and childish insults. The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves.
*Though I suggest that dragging the Afghanistan war into an argument about fishing may be over-egging the pudding a bit
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Post by Lady Jacqueline on Jul 23, 2009 17:02:40 GMT -1
Quite rightly put Alison.
I respect all opinions, but throwing extremely childish obscenities about the place will get you no where.
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Post by Polina on Jul 23, 2009 17:08:41 GMT -1
Sweaty, the same applies - please repost if you can be civilised about it, but I will not tolerate abusive language on here. Thank you.
If any of you are at all interested, Griff was asked to contribute to the Jeremy Vine show and expand upon his comments in the Countryfile interview, which seems to be the source of this debate. I would suggest that anyone interested reads said article in full, and listens to the comments made on the Vine show. I will put up an iPlayer link as soon as the BBC have put the coding up - not done at the time of writing here.
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fruity
Lamp Post Counter
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Post by fruity on Jul 23, 2009 17:22:04 GMT -1
When is the said TV programme on.........?
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Post by abcdefg on Jul 23, 2009 17:26:34 GMT -1
Goodness, what a lot of hot air. I'm sure there are two sides to this argument, and it's nice to see that abcdefg and (to a degree) mrangry* at least are capable of expressing their views and putting their case without resorting to abuse and childish insults. The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves. * Though I suggest that dragging the Afghanistan war into an argument about fishing may be over-egging the pudding a bitI must admist that i did think the other angers who posted did so in an inappropriate manner. No matter how strongly you feel about a subject you shouldt resort to the sort of language which has now been repoved from the thread. I haavent had chance to review griffs subsequent comments, on Jeremy Vine/country file but if anyone can summarise them tat would be apprechiated. If Griff is still of the opinion that canoeists should willfully disrupt anglers, and also pay nothing for the privelidge of canoeing/maintaining the waterway which they use, then it is plain to see that he is out of order, and his opinion needs to be reviewed. On another different note, how come you all like him so much ? |
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rooter
Lamp Post Counter
Posts: 29
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Post by rooter on Jul 23, 2009 17:33:15 GMT -1
Perhaps Griff will extend the right to trespass on his property any time of the day or night.
if an angling club owns the lease of a river why should they share it with canoists, will the canoists pay their way? No.
The man has no idea whatsoever about other users wishes, anglers pay their way,canoists do not, it's very basic really.
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Alison
Weekend Hippy
Posts: 127
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Post by Alison on Jul 23, 2009 17:34:51 GMT -1
Hey abcdefg.  Expect Polina will be back to you about the Jeremy Vine/Country File stuff before long. I am neither an angler nor a boatie, but am nevertheless quite interested in this debate...as long as it's polite and friendly. Why do I like Griff? Well, he's bright and versatile and has made loads of funny and intelligent telly over the years, and his enthusiasm for his various subjects is infectious. Will that do?  |
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